More responses to the Enablers

This is What They Expect Ukraine to Surrender to Russia


On Nov. 2 Democracy Now featured a debate between Ray McGovern, a former CIA analyst, and Matt Duss, former foreign policy advisor to Sen. Bernie Sanders.  Ray McGovern did great work 15 years ago when he went to an intelligence experts conference and told off Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on the awful Iraq invasion.  However, in the last decade or so he’s gone over to the position that ONLY U.S. imperialism and its wars are bad.  He co-founded a group VIPS (Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity) composed of defectors from the empire, many of whom were mistreated, isolated or even jailed.  Yet they are not Leftists and still see the world as a geopolitical game.  They are of McGovern's worldview.


Anyway, as you know the majority of the Left and their "realist" allies keep screaming “diplomacy” instead of yelling  “solidarity”.  So what did McGovern say in his debate with Duss? About 32 minutes into the segment, he says this:

"I mean, Russia can’t lose this either militarily or politically. It is going to keep going as far as it has to. If HIMARS and the like comes in, he’s going have to go farther north and west. As Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister has said, it’s is a matter of geography. “We would settle for the Donbas in southern Ukraine. If you’re going to put in HIMARS or worse, geography will dictate that we go farther.” So talks, of course talks are necessary!”


I never heard that Lavrov said any such thing.  I think it’s more revealing of what McGovern thinks, pretty much that Ukraine should give up all the Russia has already annexed.   But there’s more.   Near the end of the debate he says:

“Not only that, but as the ice covers those fields in Ukraine, Russian forces are going to go forward. And there is a hint in Putin’s latest speech that Odesa could be negotiated about. People ought to look at that. People ought to read his speeches. People ought to read through the Q&A. Now if Odesa can easily fall—after all, it is a Russian city—if it can fall to the Russians, well, maybe they will be able to negotiate on that and say, ‘Look, we will make a deal here. Let’s talk and let’s work out something where we stop and Ukraine persists in a smaller way but the war is over and Ukrainians stop dying by the thousands.’”


 I have no idea what he means that it’s a “Russian city”.  Is it because many people there speak Russian?  A lot of people in my city speak Spanish.  Does that mean we should be part of Spain?  Nonsense.  Odesa is a Ukrainian city. Yet for McGovern Putin has a right to negotiate over the future of Odesa, too.


So at least some of the Left that keeps yelling about “negotiations” would want to the U.S. to use diplomacy to have Russia take the annexed areas and maybe even more.  As a recent article in Workers Voice US pointed out, “These regions—including Ukraine’s section of the Black Sea, now mainly controlled by Russia—account for about half of Ukraine’s conventional oil, 72 percent of its natural gas, and almost its entire coal production and reserves. The bulk of Ukraine’s critical minerals, especially the rare earth metals that are now in high demand, are likewise found in Donetsk and other parts of Ukraine either occupied or threatened by Russia. “


Without these areas Ukraine would become what they call a “rump state”, a state in name only.


More on the DN! debate later.  In the meantime, #SolidarityWithUkraine.

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